Extended breastfeeding
pamela on Jul 02 2008 at 7:22 am | Filed under: breastfeeding, lactivism, media
A recent post by lovely Laura Shanley discussed an upcoming American TV appearance by a UK woman that practices extended breastfeeding. Extended to the time when her child(ren) was 8 years old.
Anyone that knows me is already familiar with the fact that I am wholly supportive of child-led weaning. I also understand the decision women make to nightwean or to wean earlier than their child would choose. Each case is individual and based on a multitude of factors - none of mine to judge.
However, looking at this picture I’m struck with surprise. It definitely stirs something up inside me, no matter how progressive I am about extended nursing. I wonder, though, if what I see and what it stirs in me is the same thing that most people see when coming upon a 2.5 year old nursing? For me, nursing toddlers is not a big deal. Even nursing a four year old isn’t a big deal. Something about an 8 year old that I’m still working on within myself.
Still, I’m open to the intimate relationship that nursing brings children and mothers. Far be it from any of us to discount the needs of both.
For more information on Veronika Robinson, check out The Mother Magazine.
Let me preface this by saying that I still nurse my 3 year old once a day, for just a few seconds on each side (he is weaning right now, but we’re taking it very slow). However, I don’t understand this idea that child led weaning is natural. When I look at the animal kingdom, I don’t see the young deciding when to quit nursing. I see the mother cats allowing a bit, then walking away, then allowing another sip, then cutting the kitten off, during the weaning process. It is gradual, and gentle, and not done prematurely, but it is most definitely always led by the mother. My son was nursing all day long, every day, and all night, every night, past age two. My breasts were soar and I started to hate nursing and felt resentful of him. Then I realized that child led weaning isn’t the ideal, it isn’t the “most natural” way of doing it, and that liberated me. I began the process of gentle mother led weaning, and over the last 6 months or so we’ve gotten down to one session a day, which will soon be fazed out as well. I find that if the child is allowed to choose when to be done, they aren’t done until they are 4 or 5 or older, which is past my personal comfort zone. I guess I see age 3 as the age that a kid kind of grows up, moves from infancy and toddlerhood to childhood, and many changes occur that progress them in that direction at that age. Also, at a certain point there was a physical change in me, in the way nursing felt for me, and how it made me feel emotionally. It made my skin crawl and I wanted to push him away everytime he came near. Anyway, this is why I really think mother led weaning is the better option for me, and the more natural option for our species. I could be wrong, and I’m in no position to argue it, it’s just my own idea based on my own observations and experiences. However, seeing an eight year old nurse really makes me uncomfortable, and I think it gives people who do wean their kids at a more appropriate age a bad name. Because, yeah, and eight year old is one year away from the onset of puberty, and breastfeeding just is not appropriate when the child is on the brink of stepping into their own sexuality (in my opinion).
At the very least, from what I can see on Tyra Banks’ website, the show itself promises to be awful. “Next, emotions get heated when stay-at-home mothers debate working moms on who makes the better parent.” Bleh. Judging from the host’s approach, I’m willing to bet serious money that Veronica will be made out to be a complete freak, because honestly what else can we expect from a show like that? I hope she knows what she’s getting into. I sincerely wish her luck.
I’ve seen her YouTube video (don’t have the link) and I had the same feeling of my comfort zone being tested. Partly, it is her public, activist approach to extending breastfeeding this long. Different folks, different strokes? I’m glad they have the happy strong family she claims they have, but I see her breastfeeding experience as just an interesting anomaly — not particularly personally inspiring, which seems to me to be Veronica’s goal…
I think the rarity of seeing an 8 year old nurse makes it seem weird or even “ooky”. Also, for me at least, knowing that an 8 year old is capable of complex reasoning unlike a toddler makes it even stranger. Nursing a tot can be soothing to the child and still a bonding experience, but mom can have an actual discussion with an 8 year old. Talking can be soothing and bonding for a kid that age, nursing is not needed. My opinion is that this mom does this for herself, and not to the benefit of the child.
Very interesting post. . .looking at this picture stirs nothing up in me, and yet the sight of my own daughter nursing at two was something that I struggled with at the time. I am amazed at that mother’s ability to maintain the energy level in that aspect of their relationship-meaning, while I take full responsibility for why our breastfeeding relationship ended, I still can’t imagine what I could have done to persuade her to nurse longer, let alone through eight. S said “why would you want to continue to that point?”. Why would one want to stop, really? Why wouldn’t you want to? Thank you for posting this.
Great food for thought re: long term breastfeeding.
Thank you for posting about it. I think it’s worth looking at for sure. An elder Greek woman we knew- a friend of my husband’s family- watched me nurse my son (many many years ago) and talked about nursing her daughter till she was 6. I think other cultures have a different take on breastfeeding in general.
I didn’t find the idea or appearance of a woman nursing an older child (as in the photo) to be a shock, but everyone’s mileage varies. I did, however get an immediate inner response of “Gee, I never thought about that!” followed by a bit of sadness, however- much to my surprise.
Pam, thanks so much again for posting about this and for exploring about it here. It’s great food for thought.
J.
I agree, I want to not bat an eye, but it’s so unusual to see.
I do wish my 20 month old would lay that nicely and nurse!
Hmmm. I don’t have a problem with people that practice clw but my own experiences are more similar to Jennifer’s. I’ve never seen an animal allow their babe to decide when to wean. I have seen horses and cows rather violently kick their babes away when they were old enough to wean and I’ve seen dogs, cats, hamsters and rats gently wean their babes. I nursed my first until she was almost 3 1/2 and that really was enough for me as I was also nursing her baby sister (who is now 14mo and still nursing and my oldest will be 4 next month). I found weaning, for her, to be the best thing for both of us but I was so indoctrinated with the the whole clw ideology that I was concerned I’d be hurting her to wean her. Thankfully, it went very smoothly (better than I could have hoped for!) and she really was ready.
All in all, I think maybe the key is for a bit of both and ultimately, for the choice to be made based on what is best for that mother and her baby in their individual situation. For us, it’s sort of a balance. I can’t see myself weaning any of my children before being sure that *they* were ready. At the same time, I’m definitely not comfortable nursing after a certain point. It makes my skin crawl, I find myself fighting extreme irrational irritability during nursing and it hurts. I think for me, at least, this is a natural sign that it’s time to work towards weaning. We’ll see if that holds true for my next nursling, who is still far too young to even think about weaning, imo.
I had a similar reaction to the photo at first, but I think watching the clip from “Extraordinary Breastfeeding” helped me to see this differently. As Veronika says, she nursed her girls until they were 5 but occasionally still nurses her 8-year-old if she’s feeling particularly stressed. To me this is better than giving a child drugs, which of course many parents do. I also know Veronika and know what a lovely person she is, so I’m sure that helped me to be more open to what she was saying.
But actually, Veronika wasn’t there to promote long-term breastfeeding. Here is what her publisher wrote on his blog: “The show…..was by all accounts a horror story for Veronika. They flew her over from the UK, put her up in a hotel and had agreed to follow a script as approved by Veronika beforehand. Her contribution was meant to be on the subject of working mothers versus stay-at-home mothers. However, ever since Veronika appeared on the C4 documentary Extraordinary Breastfeeding, people and media around the world have latched on (excuse the pun) to the fact that she was still occasionally breastfeeding her youngest daughter aged nearly 8. Needless to say, and in spite of it being agreed in advance, the show switched the subject matter and tried to nail Veronika on the weirdness of breastfeeding older children. Yet another attempt at car crash tv.” Then in another posting he wrote that he emailed his “New York contact about TB show - she confirms that Veronika held her own with Tyra and that she was handing in her notice as a result of Veronika’s treatment on the show.”
Veronika is a homebirth/breastfeeding/attachment parenting activist who continues to put herself out there, in spite of the reaction she often gets, and I applaud her for her efforts. I honestly don’t think she goes out of her way to encourage mothers to nurse their children as long as she nursed hers. But she shares her story when asked.
I actually watched this programe aired in the UK a few years ago - It caused lots of debate - for me I felt that the relationship between the mother and daughter appeared healthy- and sheusally only nursed for a short time in private. The girl weened her self just after the program was shown when a child reaches a certain age they no longer havethe skills required to nurse. What I find strangeisthat I am helping out on a childrens reidental camp at the moment and there are hundreds of children whoare heavly medicated on strongmid altering drugs - which every one except me seems to view as normal- Children on heavy physy meds stirs much more in me than extending breastfeeding.
Wow. You’re right–this picture is very provocative.
Not sure what I “think” but my first feeling was, “Huh???” So, interesting.
Thanks for sharing.
“To me this is better than giving a child drugs, which of course many parents do.”
Really? People give their 8 year olds drugs when stressed out? What kind of drugs? Don’t most people just sit down and talk to an 8 year old who is stressed out? Doesn’t that seem a little more developmentally appropriate then breastfeeding? Being “better than giving a child drugs” isn’t really a high endorsement, so I’m not thinking you agree with her methods. Oh well, to each her own I guess. It’s too bad that the show did that to her though, that doesn’t seem fair.
I saw the Tyra show today and it left me sick in my stomach. I am so upset that they would set up a show were instead of women discussing the different decisions they’ve made that have worked best for their families and applauding the women for taking the time to consider they children’s best interest. It might have well have been a cage match! Nursing against bottle feeders….. sahm’s against working moms… it was not enlighting at all and I was ashamed at seeing all of these women attacking each other. And Shame On Tyra Banks.. emmy awarding winning for what… she has the opportunity to bring women’s issues to the for front in a positive manner and what does she do? She sets up an hours of bickering between women… and she did set it up this way.. she even separated the sahm’s from the working mom’s in the audience… as if they were on different sides… I have had enough of women from they earliest of pre teen years tearing each other apart instead of bringing eachother together….. Shame on you Tyra Shame on you!!!!!
I just watched the show. Veronika was brilliant! The audience was horrible, and Tyra wasn’t much better, but I’ve gotten very good at tuning out people who just don’t “get it”! Both Veronika and Kim (the mother who “believes it’s OK to breastfeed in public”) held their ground. I was surprised at how the audience responded to Veronika’s comment that breastfeeding should be pleasurable. When a woman in the audience stood up and said that she nursed her 3 daughters and never once experienced pleasure, everyone applauded! But these are the sorts of things we have to expect when we live in a shame-based culture.
I applaud Veronika and Kim for putting themselves out there! I found the show very educational, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.
By the way, thanks for calling me lovely, Pam.
I’ll keep that in mind when/if Tyra decides to do a show on unassisted childbirth!
Another woman whose blog I read posted pictures of her trip to China. She visited a park full of all kinds of interesting and unusual old statues. One of the statues depicted a young woman nursing a frail, elderly man while her young child looked on. I believe it was titled “Filial Devotion.”
Gives a whole new perspective to extended nursing, I thought.
I am delighted by the comments on this post. I think nursing to that age is beyond my comfort level, but bwho knows; my oldest weaned earlier than I thought she would at 2 and my baby is only 14 months.
I think the important part of a nursing relationship is that it’s a RELATIONSHIP. For any relationship to work, both people have to be able to set boundries. If your child is ready to accept boundries and limitations, then your child is beginning to wean. If you begin weaning while following your child’s cues, then, imo you’re practicing child led weaning.
I also had evil prolactin issues with my dd, so we set some fluid rules and she didn’t mind. And then she eased off until she just nursed once a week or so before she was just… done. I geuss if that method takes until 8, then it does. Who am I to judge.
8! Why? That is weird. I breastfeed my first till 9 months. And, currently am w/ my 17 month. I feel like She is getting big. She can say boobs and tries to pick up my shirt to get them. I wish we could stop. I’m glad she has the closness w/ me but…….I feel like she should learn how to soothe her self to sleep. She very independent, just obsessed w/ my breasts. I think an 8 yr. old breastfeeding is doing more harm than good. What about a bowl of ice cream, a pet, toy, movie, a talk, etc……..to comfort your child. When she’s an adult will she have a “drink w/ mom” when she’s stressed??? She should have learned to self soothe/ cope w/ stress by know. Children will probably tease her too. She may resent her mother for doing so. If she realizes how strange it is. It what molesters do to there kids, condition them to think it’s normal. Breastfeeding a baby is one thing, but you have to draw the line. Did She really say it’s pleasurable to nurse?? It’s gratifying mabey, but pleasurable is a poor word of choice. It makes it sound sexual,
I don’t know what more to say.
I have breastfed 3 children through toddlerhood. I must say though that as important as it is to practice attachment with your child there comes a time when you should help them grow and become independent. I do not believe this is healthy for any child.
Why, yes, you are correct. The feelings that are stirred upon watching this 8 year old are like the feelings that most people have when they see a toddler or preschooler nursing. Now you know why most people are bothered by it.
I had a similar reaction to the picture. As a new mom I have done a lot of reading about parenting etc and have chosen to breastfeed. I had never considered this beyond infancy and am aware that pushing into toddler years is considered strange and unnecessary by many. But, despite my initial reaction, after watching the youtube video it seems very natural. The feeding close up shows Veronica’s daughter to be as childlike, vulnerable and in need of a mother as my four month old. The intimacy of that mother child relationship should be preserved for as long as both are comfortable with it.
I believe it is really really fine. What harm could possibly come of it. Breastmilk is benefical for all who consume it. I feel like there is this weird thing that whatever age a mother weans at, she extrapolates that all should wean at that age . . . I let my husband have some nursing time, is he too old? LOL (It is benefical for his digestive issues)
I could say a lot about this but most it was already covered.
I am strongly in favor of child-led and/or gradual weaning, but primarily I see nursing as piece of the a complex relationship you have with your child, and that means very individual.
I could not imagine nursing an eight year old, I think (for myself only) that it is unnecessary and regressive (notice I did not say inappropriate!). I am trying to grow my child and I do not see nursing her at that age as part of making the right growing conditions for her development.
On the other hand, when my daughter is feeling needy or wanting intimacy with me she sometimes fondles my breasts (shes 9). Sometimes I let her, sometimes I don’t. I don’t see this in the same way as nursing at her age. is there a big difference?
It is interesting to question if my reactions to this picture are my mother’s instinct or social conditioning…very intriguing.